Not too long ago, famous endurance swimmer Diana Nyad sat for an interview with Oprah Winfrey on her “Super Soul Sunday” program. The interview caused some waves when the following exchange happened:
Diana Nyad: I’m not a god person and, um, do I argue against my friends who, you know, are religious, Buddhists, Jews, Christians–
Oprah Winfrey: Do you consider yourself atheist?
Nyad: I’m an atheist. And um–
Winfrey: But you’re into awe.
Nyad: Yeah, but you know, I, I don’t understand why anybody would find, you know, a contradiction in that. I can stand at the beach’s edge, with the most devout Christian, Jew, Buddhist, go on down the line, and weep with the beauty of this universe and be moved by all of humanity. All of the billions of people who have lived before us, who have loved and hurt and–
Winfrey: Yeah.
Nyad: –suffered. So to me my definition of God is humanity and is the love of humanity, and as we return to, you know–
Winfrey: Well, I don’t call you an atheist then. I think if you believe in the awe–
Nyad: Okay.
Winfrey: –and the wonder–
Nyad: Okay.
Winfrey: –and in the mystery–
Nyad: Okay.
Winfrey: –uh, that is what God is.
Nyad: Okay.
Winfrey: That is what God is.
Nyad: Yes, you know–
Winfrey: God is, God is not the bearded guy in the sky.
Nyad: It’s not bearded, but I guess there is an inference with God that there is a presence, there is either a creator or an overseer. I don’t criticize anybody because, you know what, the definition of life is, we will never know. We will never now.
Winfrey: Until that last breath.
Nyad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Winfrey: And maybe it’s an ‘oh wow’ one for you, as it was for Steve Jobs.
Nyad: You know, I could be ‘whoa, I should’ve been praying all these years, I’m going the wrong way.’
Winfrey: (laughs)
Quite reasonably, many people were a bit offended that Oprah thought it was a good idea to tell Nyad — who wasn’t asking for guidance — precisely what Nyad believed. Few people enjoy being corrected; exactly zero people enjoy being told that they don’t even understand their own belief system.
But if we step back from Oprah’s faux pas for a moment, we can see that they were touching upon an interesting topic: how do religious and non-religious people perceive the same phenomena? If you are observing an awe-inducing event, and fully appreciating its wonder, is that experience significantly different if you believe in God or not? When you listen to Nyad describing her experiences, do you think that she appreciates it less because she doesn’t think that it was created by a deity?
I would propose that Diana Nyad is fully experiencing the beauty of nature and is fully appreciative of the amazing circumstances that occurred to allow her to witness it. Likewise, I believe that Oprah Winfrey is also fully appreciative of the natural world herself, even if she believes that it should be attributed to the power of God.
The difference, however, is whether or not Nyad and Winfrey allow that the other also fully appreciates the wonders of nature. Does Oprah believe that a woman who professes her love for nature is missing out on something if she doesn’t believe that it was created by God? Can Nyad allow that a Christian may also stand in genuine awe if that experience also causes them to immediately say a prayer of thanks?
It’s worth noting, I think, that Oprah’s description of experiencing the wonders of nature doesn’t line up cleanly with a deist belief system. When somebody speaks of God as an all-encompassing spirit, it’s not quite the same as a Bible literalist speaking about God as a supernatural being who is fully responsible for every event that happens in their lives. I would suggest that, if we could press Winfrey and Nyad on the subject, they would agree that they are largely talking about the same emotional reaction, just with different words.
Which leads me to the thought of how much of religion, and other seemingly supernatural experiences, are largely about how humans perceive things. If you experience an amazing sunset, perhaps you take a moment and think about how God created the entire universe and made it so beautiful. On the other hand, maybe you marvel at how huge, astronomic movements caused those precise arrangements of colors that are being uniquely perceived by the microscopic nerves in your eyes.
Similarly, if you notice a weird coincidence, or feel an unexplained sensation when you enter a room, you may attribute it to the influence of a guardian angel, or the haunting of a ghost. Or maybe you just marvel at how remarkable it is that circumstances coincided at that exact moment to create a compelling experience only for you.
Should we really be causing differences amongst ourselves over how our personal perceptions differ? Should you be blaming my colorblind eyes for not appreciating the divinely-created sunset last night? Should I be questioning your intelligence or sanity if you are moved by a synchronicity that I didn’t even notice?
Or can we agree that all humans coexist in some form of physical reality and could each experience that reality differently, depending on physical, emotional, and cultural difference.
That maybe, on some infinitesimally granular level, we’re all talking about the exact same thing.
Videos of the Oprah Winfrey interview of Diana Nyad can be found here, with the pertinent exchange beginning at 26:55 of the second part.